The Tiffany Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 Is a Disgrace
I originally posted this text on Reddit soon after the announcement of the Tiffany x Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711. I have reproduced the post below with some very light editing.
The Tiffany x Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 (Image source: italianwatchspotter.com).
This is a long post, the ideas for which have been floating around in my head for years, but have never come together until yesterday’s announcement of the Patek/Tiffany 5711.
tl;dr: This watch is a disgrace and for the first time in over a decade of watch collecting, a watch has made me feel physically ill. But, we CAN do something about all the terrible things it represents!
I usually don’t get upset over much, certainly not things related to a hobby, and certainly not to the point where I’d post my thoughts online (it’s the internet, after all…).
This time is different.
I first got into watches as an early-twenties guy looking to kill time between jobs out in the field. I was (and still am) into menswear/fashion, and initially via askmen.com and the Watch Snob Q&A I fell gradually, then immediately, down the rabbit hole.
In a short period of time, I went through an initial progression I’m sure many here can relate to:
Sorry, this watch costs $1,000? Sorry, this watch costs $5,000? $7,500 isn’t so bad, this is a Rolex after all. This isn’t Rolex? I don’t care then.
Thankfully, I’ve evolved a lot in the hobby (and as a person!) in the years since. I’ve bought and sold watches, acquired a nice collection and even “graduated” from the Timezone watchmaking course, as well as tried (and failed) to start my own micro brand. I studied engineering so watch mechanisms and manufacturing fascinate me, and I’m from a part of the world that has some watchmaking history, so I suppose by association I feel a certain pride.
As much as I love watches and watchmaking, throughout this journey I have become increasingly uncomfortable with the following:
The watch industry completely distorts your sense of “value”. On one hand, nowadays when I think to myself that a given watch is “reasonable” at $5k (pick your number), that’s partly because I thankfully make more income than when I first started looking, but on the other hand it’s because when you read enough posts about a $300k (pick your number) limited edition, a few thousand seems… ok?…
Continuing on that theme, there seems to be this unspoken rule that we have to live in a state of almost willful ignorance, whereby it is completely normal to have the income for these purchases. Occasionally I’ll hear the folks at Worn & Wound acknowledge the cost of watches generally, but for the most part, despite the fact that so many in the world have so little, we just have to ignore all that and go on as if it were all our little bubble of champagne, cigars, sports cars, tropical vacations, steak dinners and watches (did I miss any wrist shot clichés there?)
Now, I’m not saying we should seize the means of watch production, nor that we should all live in collective housing. Certainly, all hobbies can present varying degrees of expensive gear to buy, and generally speaking I’m totally fine with a spectrum of income distribution (I went to grad school twice, while working full-time, to ensure as good a place as I could get on that distribution).
Watches though…given how much the world has changed since 2008, they strike me more and more as an obscenity. This is the fault of both the manufacturers and consumers, with the awful behavior enabled by social media, the watch blogosphere, and increasingly, grey-market/used watch dealers.
Let’s start with consumers. More and more people have gotten into watches in the last few years. One loose data point is that Josh Thanos at Watchbox said in a recent video that he estimates three times more people are into watches now than in years past. This should be a great thing! More people should mean more choice in the market.
Unfortunately, it is way easier and more visually appealing to browse Instagram than it is to work through a Walt Odets post on an old forum, so everyone has converged onto a handful of models from a handful of brands; celebrities with more followers have more clout, and the problem worsens. The same goes for YouTube, and since the algorithms reward views and search terms, content creators put out more of the same content; who those creators are matters greatly!
Increasingly, used watch dealers and companies are looking to market their products on these platforms. This is totally understandable and I do enjoy quite a lot of this, but clearly they have an agenda and are willfully feeding the hype and bubbles for Rolex, Journe, Moser, etc.
Brands could do something about this. Yes, I completely understand that you can’t just snap your fingers and triple output capacity, and to an extent I understand that in the « luxury » space, you might want to keep supply under demand somewhat, but…
Come on.
Seemingly every new release nowadays is some collab limited edition, and there is no stopping people who will attempt to flip a watch. Not because they wear it, tire of it, and want to fund something else, but just because I suppose it’s the cool thing now to say that you did it and made a quick buck. The most recent example for me: the Timex x James Brand collab looked cool, but is now nearly $600 from individual sellers (msrp $350). As much as I’d love to have it, I have to roll my eyes that we’re now at a point where people are flipping…a Timex.
And back to this concept of “luxury”. This could be a post entirely to itself, but I believe that many things can be luxurious regardless of price AND scarcity. It boggles my mind that some (many?) people now into the watch hobby draw no small measure of utility from the fact they have something others can’t.
I can’t believe such people exist, truly. Maybe it’s just because I’m not 0.00001% wealthy, but this brings up serious “sorcerer-bathing-in-the-blood-of-newborns” vibes. If I raised a child to think this way, I would view myself as a failed parent.
Do these people have friends? I have to believe not, at least not in the sense I would view my own friends.
Again, there is nothing wrong with there being expensive stuff out there. But, I believe there is a difference in being proud of the work involved in attaining something available to buy, and actively taking pleasure in having something someone else can’t have.
Is that really who we want to be, or become, as a community?
Which all brings me to this new 5711. I saw that and honestly, just felt upset; for the first time ever, I felt sick to my stomach looking at a product announcement. Here, we have a brand whose CEO has, on record, said they didn’t want the Nautilus to overshadow the rest of the catalog, and then ticked every box to ensure this will become one of the most hyped items of all time. In fact, it is the grotesque culmination of every piece of hype that has come before it.
So what happens now? I wouldn’t be surprised if this eventually goes for north of $5MM at auction, and for what? So someone can put it in their safe and say “nana nana boo-boo” and blow raspberries at all their “friends” who can’t have one?
The thought of the super-rich falling over themselves to get a bauble manipulated specifically to get that reaction while so, so many others have to fight just for food and water…it’s gross, and at the same time a fitting reflection of the world in 2021.
Is it any surprise that watch theft is way up globally?
Not to me.
What IS surprising is that the usual response from watch owners is “how dare those people do this”, without any reflection on how they might be feeding the cycle of violence.
As for me, I have absolutely no wish to own any of the watches to which I aspired years ago. For one thing, I don’t beg for anything, and no way am I going to try to ingratiate myself with an AD or boutique for the “privilege” of giving them my money.
Also, forget the cost, where’s the mystery with these watches? Royal Oak, Patek Philippe, Rolex…all just an app-tap away to see in 4K! Ariel Adams from ABlogToWatch said a while back that his advice to collectors who have gotten bored of the high end and who feel like they have seen it all is to start at the bottom again, and that’s what I’ve done. I love browsing Chrono24 or WatchRecon to find forgotten models that trade at a huge discount, or enjoying the straightforward utility of something like a Hamilton (I have a Khaki Aviation Pilot Pioneer on my wrist now).
On that note, I want to end positively because this has been very depressing to write. My life-view is that if I bring up a problem, I have to propose at least two solutions, so here is my list. Hopefully, if enough of us adopt these behaviors, over enough time, we can bring about positive change in the watch community!
Try not to click on any post related to the new Tiffany Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711. I am always curious to read the associated comments on something like this, but I will refrain so as not to help grow the engagement with this type of story. At this point, I want this watch to disappear forever in 170 safes around the world, but until then the less I hear about it, the better.
By extension, try not to click on any post about the millionth Royal Oak (or whatever) release.
If you still read these things but feel as I do, don’t hesitate to comment in their respective comment sections! Ultimately, the brands only follow their consumers’ leads, and over time, if they see opinions changing, and more importantly, potential buyers of these hype watches see opinions changing, I’m optimistic we will see change.
If you’re known as the “watch person” in your circle of friends, actively tell them about the dynamics at play now and alternatives to those dynamics: Even the best-performing watches don’t stack up that well as investments relative to just putting your money in the market.
Value retention can be found in almost any watch, you just have to research and get the best price possible! Deals are always out there and if you get one and want/need to flip, you can do so without losing much/any money (keeping in mind watches are one of the few hobbies that allow this!)
Remind them that the watch doesn’t make the wearer! Stylish and charismatic people OWN whatever they wear. If they are hanging around people who judge them by the watch on their wrist, they are hanging around the wrong people.
There is a HUGE world of watches out there! If you as the expert can help broaden their horizons, I am sure you can steer them to something that is not only a rationally better value than a Rolex Daytona at 3x MSRP, but also makes them feel joy.
I’ll end with two positive anecdotes.
A buddy reached out to me recently for some advice on a first big watch purchase, a dress watch. He had two great choices lined up, but I said “hey, if you’re not in a hurry, why not check out a few other brands?” Long-story-short, L.U. Chopard was on that list, and that’s what he got, a screaming deal on an LUC Quattro! As a first watch purchase!
I have to believe that the vast majority of people in a position to buy a “good” watch (however you want to define that) have earned the pleasure via hard work and rational thinking. It’s up to us to make the case that hype is fleeting but quality watchmaking that makes you smile is forever. It’s super-refreshing to see the affection people have on this sub for all the watches besides the usual suspects. Keep it up!
Notes:
I apologize for not posting the links to the Arial Adams quote, if you have it please let me know and I will add them to this post.
Edit: Josh Thanos himself added context in a reply to the original Reddit thread (Josh_in_Shanghai)!